Bigger Fish to Fry

Quoting Deafherbalist’s World recent blog article, “Deafread andDeaf.video TV- Stay On and Win the Battle!”:

“…show the world what you are made of instead of crying “Audism” because we have a bigger fish to fry.”

Deafherbalist decries the numbers of v/bloggers leaving DeafRead and DVTV.  Tayler Mayer, the owner of DR and DVTV refused to put “audism” in the R-list as a reason for removing a v/blogger from the aggregator.  He has said that DR/ DVTV can’t please everybody.  He commented in Dianrez’s blog:

“Use DeafRead Hide to turn DeafRead into your own specialized aggregator. Instead of centralizing the decison-making of who belongs and who doesn’t belong to a chosen few – we decided to provide this functionality to empower you to make your own decision about what you want to learn and discuss. The deaf community is too diverse and it is impossible to make everyone happy. This is democracy in its truest sense.”

Does anybody remember the uproar when Tayler cited “commercialism” that was vaguely defined in the guidelines  when he booted a popular C.I. blog from DR over a year ago?  The booted C.I. blogger started a new aggregator herself  and some of DR’s traffic went to hers.  Deja vu here?  Some people actually expressed glee when this blogger with an “audistic” attitude got booted off.

Tayler’s gotten called a lot of names over the last two years, and now “audist” because he won’t put in “audism” as an R-list reason.  What an irony.  The terms “audism” and “audist” oughta be booted out of the deaf blogosphere for good, that’s what I think.  Back to discrimination against the d/Deaf.

Those two words are just about the most abused words on the deaf blogosphere to the point they have no power to move mountains.   We’ve ended up using those words against each other in the deaf community and it’s turning the community into a laughingstock.   What a wonderful online example of the so-called tolerance and warmth that the deaf community has been known for.

Whatever has happened to respect for another’s different view without resorting to a personal attack?  Whatever has happened to respect for a deaf organization’s mission without attacking that organization?  We all have different missions in our lives.  The point is, each of us is contributing something to advance what he/she believes in and that’s what Deafherbalist is talking about.

There are better things to do than call another d/Deaf person’s or d/Deaf organization’s efforts as “audism”.  Before attacking another d/Deaf person or organization, realize that none of us  ain’t perfect either and have work on ourselves to do.  That’s truly our bigger fish to fry.

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187 Responses to “Bigger Fish to Fry”

  1. K.L. Says:

    Perfectly said. Thank you. You would think that the exodus of mostly CI related blogs when Rachel was booted off last year (I still think that was wrong) would have made the ASL Deaf people here extatic. Diversity disappeared, along with much of the controversy. But no, it seems like the people who were left, just turned on each other.

    So DeafRead is still to oral centric? No it is not. The real issue is that some extremists want a Deaf aggregator that only caters to ASL Deaf. Perfect. Lets just totally separate ourselves into those two long standing camps, and take pot shots at each other from the distance. Forget learning tolerance, and learning how to appreciate each other even if we don’t agree on certain issues.

    If it was just the current population that we were talking about, and the only reason to blog is to socialize with people with similar agendas, then that would be the answer. Unfortunately there is a greater need that must be met. Parents of newly identified deaf babies and children need support. They don’t generally speak ASL, and will have no access to an ASL only aggregator. So they will find Deaf Village, and see only one side of the story. They will get tons of support from the oral deaf proponants, and will never see the need for ASL

    The only way to give parents the whole story is to meet them where they are. DeafRead is easy to find, and a good place to meet. Isolation will only harm the Deaf Community.

  2. Dianrez Says:

    Of late I wondered who is being called an extremist. Seems lately that Deaf people who are moderate, who wear aids or CIs are being called extremist for demanding that they be given equal attention.

    Oddly, these same people are being called extremists by the other camp, oralists who use no ASL, because they believe in a multilingual society.

    Classic–the middle ground getting fired upon by both sides. Also an example of how things can go wrong with the best of intentions.

    What is happening now is that culturally Deaf people are feeling pushed aside by the increasing number of CI and hearing-centered blogs that describe more adventures in hearing sounds than concerns that affect all d/Deaf people.

    Some Deaf writers are expressing a wish to sort the two types of blogs into separate folders–one for CI and related blogs, and one for cultural blogs. Maybe that is the answer, (see my current blog on specialization.)

    One need not compete with the other, but receive equal treatment and equal access.

  3. ireflections09 Says:

    K.L,

    I’ve noted a new blogger, a hearing mom with a deaf child, who has gone the bilingual route. Her blog “We Never Landed in Holland” is a sensitive dialogue about yet another option, bilingualism. The blogger spoke of a lack of Deaf resources on where to start, a problem that DBC is trying to address.

    I’ve already brought up in a comment in dianrez’s blog about how is the new ASL Deaf-centric blog going to reach hearing parents of deaf children when likely most of the vlogs will be in ASL and without transcripts or captioning. Such extra work is an option on DR and DVTV, so it’s a problem there too. On the other hand, DV requires captioning of any ASL vlog posted there, hence so few ASL vlogs there.

    If ASL Deaf really want to reach hearing parents regarding bilingualism, they are definitely going to have to practice what they preach by being bilingual on their vlogs.

  4. K.L. Says:

    Ireflections09, I agree. I fully understand the desire to blog/vlog to your friends without the hassle of captions for those who don’t understand ASL. But you need to keep your audience in mind. If you really are just socially vlogging, then what you are saying would probably have no interest to the bigger community anyway. But if you are dealing with issues you want the wider community to interact on, it needs to be out there, not isolated in an ASL only format.

    And a good dialog is better when it includes people with opposing viewpoints. How do you interact with them if there is no format that allows a wider community to interact?

  5. ireflections09 Says:

    dianrez,

    Of the some 92 v/blogs posted so far on DR from the last two days, most of them are posted by ASL Deaf v/bloggers. There’ve been three oral/late-deafened blogs, mine, Deaf Librarian, and What I Hear. Eight CI bloggers, all adults and only one hearing mom with a deaf son, posted in the last two days. A couple of bilingual bloggers, We Never Landed in Holland and Jamie Berke, have both posted several times in the last two days. A couple of hearing blogs, Bill Crisswell’s and the Philipino, posted as well. Bill posts a lot in one day usually, because he provides captioning of a lot of movie trailers, videos and the like, an actual service to all of us who are d/Deaf.

    Lessee, that makes about fifteen in all, that makes a puny number of oral/CI/bilinguals/hearies crowding out those who use primarily ASL, hmmm? Now this is just my observation of the last two days’ worth of v/blogs on DR, but I’m willing to bet that Tayler has got the most up-to-date stats on which kind of v/blogs dominate DR and DVTV.

    I’m not sure why some ASL Deaf feel threatened by these small numbers. Reminds me of the elephant running in fear of an imaginary mouse. Competition? Yeah, right.

    DR and DVTV are ALREADY specialized, for a d/Deaf viewership primarily, and there’s nothing wrong with hearing people making worthwhile contributions to the deaf community as well as peeking in to take a look-see at the deaf community online.

    But I agree that we need to address what really concerns the d/Deaf community, instead of separating to opposite aggregators, DV and this new ASL Deaf-centric one, and just take pot-shots at one another and nobody learns anything, as K.L. said. DR IS the middle ground, and it’s caught all kinds of flak for being in this position. But it’s the learning ground.

    And we d/Deaf still have a lot to learn.

  6. White Ghost Says:

    Purrfectly said.

    Do you think it would be the double standard if the DVTV owner decides to put ‘audism’ in the DVTV’s R-list? I think it would be.

    DVTV has a wonderful tool because anyone who wish to learn sign language to learn sign language from the vloggers. If a vlogger does not know how to sign language, then, this vlogger would use the subtitle. DVTV welcomes this non-sign language vlogger into the DVTV world. See, Tayler have a huge heart for any vloggers who do not know any sign language to socialize with the DVTV vloggers. That’ll be great. It make a sense that Tayler decided not to include ‘audism’ in the DVTV’s R-list.

    I’ve visited Deaf Village (DV) once in a while. They have met the maturity level. Over a year, they have viewed approx. 5,000 blogs. I thought the DV has wonderful tool for newly parents of deaf child/children to get the wealth information.

    As for a new aggregator in the deaf-centric, they need to require the subtitles in the vlogs and more blogs for the newly parents of deaf child/children to access the information. However, will the new and old (disagree with the ‘audism’) v/bloggers follow the guideline that includes ‘audism’ in the new aggregator? IMO, I thought they will not understand the new aggregator’s well-intended to use and explain what the ‘audism’ is in the guideline. It will drive them away and will decrease many v/blogs, v/bloggers and viewers to attend the new aggregator. That’s something that the new owner of the aggregator needs to work on convincing many new people to access the information from the deaf-centric. They need to ponder about that issue.

  7. Tayler Says:

    I like your quote: “And a good dialog is better when it includes people with opposing viewpoints.”

    I also said that people who are observing discussions are more likely to listen more openly when it is not so one-sided. Readers want as much information as possible. The more information, the less bias.

    It’s unfortunate when some people misinterpret bringing all sides to a discussion as a promotion of some ideals. Or as we’re seeing, the refusal to force an ideal upon all readers. It hurts being labeled an “audist” because I am against audism… at least my own definition of it. Just like a year ago, we would not force a definition of what “deaf” meant, because the definition varied too greatly among people. Instead of deciding for everyone, we provide DeafRead Hide as a way for people to filter out blogs they prefer not to read. The former is to control, the latter is to empower.

    DeafRead aspires to be neutral and objective. Similarly, you will read about all things, of all sides, in a newspaper. DeafRead’s vision is to follow the ethics and standards in journalism. That includes publishing things we don’t agree with. In fact, this has been long printed on the bottom of DeafRead Guidelines:

    “Because a Human Editor publishes an opinionated post does not mean the Human Editor agrees with it. We will often publish posts with which we disagree.”

    Further, this disclaimer appears on every single page of DeafRead: “DeafRead does not endorse any of the blogs by the mere act of publishing.”

    We clarified that we hold no position when we are moderating posts. So many times that if we were to do so again, we would read like a broken record. What do you think, guys? Should we?

  8. Tayler Says:

    A couple new comments were posted while I was writing my comment.

    It’s elating to see others who see the way we do. Thanks. I would like to add to the “middle ground” comment. While either far side of the spectrum (extremists, if you will) are louder, it’s the middle ground that is far more vast in numbers. You just don’t hear from them because they don’t feel as strongly about the issues as the “extremists” do. But wherever they are on the spectrum, may it be in the far ends, or in the middle, DeafRead is a platform for everyone.

  9. Ann_C Says:

    Hi WG,

    Tell me if I’m wrong, but before DVTV took off, Mike McConnell did a vlog using his voice and had it captioned. My memory’s foggy as to whether Mike posted his vlog in DR or not, but he caught hell for it. Some people derided him for posting such a vlog since he also knows enough ASL to be understood. But, as Mike so loves playing the devil’s advocate *wink*, he was testing d/Deaf people’s willingness to caption or not.

    I often wonder what the reaction would be if an oral deaf or hearing person posted a vlog speaking English with included captioning on DVTV. Are some people going to heckle with the “audist” card just because the vlogger did it that way?

    The other prob is the commenter who responds with an ASL vlog, with no captioning.

    Think ASL-English translation software that is easily available and free/cheap to use online may change some things and make dialogue possible that wasn’t before on DVTV, as well as on other deaf aggregators. That day is coming. Ya can run but ya can’t hide. *smile*

    “Audism” may very well bite the dust then and there.

  10. gamas Says:

    Actually, this is all too funny. If you think about it, what goes around comes around. It started with the banning of a popular C.I. blogger and it will continue on until the end. Like K.L., I still felt that it was wrong. As they say, Karma is a…..

    Good article Ann_C. 😉

  11. Dianrez Says:

    True, if both oral and ASL vlogs were captioned, it could do a lot to bring together d/Deaf people when they realize that they share a lot in their lives. That’s just one aspect we could be looking at.

    However, we also need to figure out how to make the captioning process easier. It might be easy to DO, but the TIME to write the captions, have it match the screen, and sync them is greater than often available.

    It’s worth trying. The value of bringing this material to the understanding of a wider world is incalculable.

  12. Alma Says:

    I absolutely agree with K.L. and Dianrez that all vlogs should be captioned. I can see the extremists’ point of view in wanting to preserve the deaf community. The community has always been our own, untouched by the hearing world, and we treasure that. It has always been our sanctuary from a world dominated by the hearing but that world is becoming more and more Deaf-friendly. Shouldn’t we do the same in return?

    There is still a lot for the hearing world to understand, what better way for them to understand than to see for themselves what our community is about? Not all of them are prejudiced against the deaf; indeed I’ve met quite a few that are genuinely curious about deaf culture.

    What better way to bridge the gap (between the hearing and deaf worlds) than to show them that we are more than bitter extremists?

  13. Ann_C Says:

    To K.L.’s second comment above,

    I understand about social vlogging in ASL without captioning may not require a wider audience, as it’s of a more personal nature.

    But consider this: much of the Deaf’s social vlogging also includes their particular brand of humor and honesty about painful encounters, which is a positive side that the wider audience could learn from, if such vlogging was captioned. It would strip away the ignorance or prejudices of some viewers.

    Alma,

    We’re more than our deafness, thanks for your thoughts. It takes a village to build a bridge.

  14. Karen Mayes Says:

    Well written posting. You could not have said it any better.

    I don’t spend a lot of time on DR and DVTV lately so I am glad to know that there are still other people who have similiar views that I have, even with drama going on in the deaf cyberspace who refuse to use the block features, etc. Guess we all want attention… attention equals power, huh?

    I honestly think Tayler did a great job… he gave us block features, etc., and it is NOT his fault that some people refuse to use it. , making sure that we got more of democracy and more power to make decisions. I think that the flag feature was the one that many people struggled with. So there were two features that caused some confusion… block and flag features, from my observation. I could be wrong though.

    ;o)

  15. Nesmuth Says:

    Tayler is a brazenite and DVTV is a brazen one man show. People finally saw through all the Tayler smoke after 2 years and decided to part with DVTV and start their own sites. Some have popped up already, and a handful are planned for 2010. Mutations within DVTV has caused it to become the Babel tower. Tayler can only keep on dreaming bigger for unity while other sites are working toward it.

  16. Karen Mayes Says:

    Well, I think it’s normal for people to break away from the main concept to formulate their own branches of the main concept, and the branches usually show the influences by the main concept. So anyone who set up their own aggregators have Tayler to thank for… *shrug*

  17. jamie Says:

    Only have time for one word…amen.

  18. Paotie Says:

    Tayler ..

    You said: “DeafRead aspires to be neutral and objective.”

    Rubbish.

    Did you not declare in an official DeafRead posting that encouraged DeafReaders to, “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”?

    Your idea of objectivity and neutrality is based on profits – which you have admitted.

    You sold out.

    :o)

    Paotie

  19. Dianrez Says:

    Let’s not let this discussion end on a negative note. What we are discussing is a great resource in the d/Deaf community, something that was developed entirely within our community to become a showcase for all of us in Tayler’s concept. Put the wet blankets in the dryer where they belong.

  20. Tayler Says:

    Paotie,

    You misinterpret how I use the quote. It is when you have open discussions with all sides present, that you can make your argument stronger.

    Newspapers are held to journalism principles, while at the same time must sell ads to make ends meet. We have not sold out because we do not withhold any critiques and/or negative reviews of our sponsors and their services/products.

  21. White Ghost Says:

    Devil’s advocate? Karma?

    Hey, Paparazzi! Get over here and sell us! I’ll play the devil’s advocate if needed! 😛

    Well it’s karma after all…….

    😉

  22. Paotie Says:

    Tayler ..

    You said: “You misinterpret how I use the quote.”

    How does the statement, “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” facilitate, “open discussions with all sides present”?

    Also, you said: ” We have not sold out because we do not withhold any critiques and/or negative reviews of our sponsors and their services/products.”

    I didn’t say nuthin’ about your sponsors. But, since you did, higher traffic equates to higher ad revenues, which equates to greater exposure for your sponsors, which means you had a compelling, financial interest in promoting controversies on DeafRead, i.e., encouraging people to “keep friends close and enemies closer.”

    “open discussions with all sides present” = “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”?

    You contradict yourself consistently and constantly.

    :o)

    Paotie

  23. Paotie Says:

    Tayler ..

    You also said: “Newspapers are held to journalism principles”

    You hold DeafRead to your financial principles. DeafRead is NOT a journalist entity.

    Try, try again.

    :o)

    Paotie

  24. anonymous Says:

    Since we have Tayler here,

    How is it that Viable can afford to $upport the comments in DVTV, when its employees have to to sue it to get their back wages?

    Follow the money and see how the principles start to change…

    Since Tayler says that he has his own definition of audism, and is against the practice as he defines it, why not place his definition of audism in the R-list as what he feels it means, and what DVTV and DR are against, just like Tayler claims he is when money isn’t so directly involved…

    Even Tayler’s just proposing a definition of audism would help… Everybody is using the term, but it really does mean different things to different people, so even to start defining terms would be helpful. That way we could talk about “audism” as Tayler defines it, and “audism” as Ella defines it, and “audism” as TheHolism defines it, etc. Then we could hold them to their definitions and see how much traction each definition gets!

    Better than avoiding the issue and wringing hands over the consequent misunderstandings and hurt feelings!

    What does “audism” actually mean? Is there NO situation where hearing people have it better than Deaf? Is there NOTHING in the hearing world more valuable than what is to be found in the Deaf World?

    Or is your “audism” limited to only the blatant discrimination hearing people do to deaf people every day, with any d/Deaf on D/deaf “audism” being a shadow of the main thing?

    Or do you think that “audism” isn’t a good parallel to the situation of “racism”, because “racism” is so much more eggregious, with no objective value, whereas “audism” is at least sometimes a correct reaction to the diminished world d/D/d/Deaf people live in?

    I’d like to see Tayler’s definition at least, since he claims to have one, and is influential enough by his control of DVTV and DR that his witholding his definition feels necessary to “protect” it…

  25. Nesmuth Says:

    Karen Mayas,

    The deaf blog/vlog aggregation concept was discovered by a group of deaf people in Austin, Texas. We don’t have to thank Tayler for that since it’s not his own horse to begin with.

  26. Karen Mayes Says:

    Oh really, Nesmuth? Thanks for correcting me, anyway.

  27. Ann_C Says:

    To Anonymous,

    The trouble with the word “audism” is that everybody has a different definition of the word and the fact that the word itself has been abused over and over inappropriately as a verbal weapon against other d/Deaf, it loses meaning altogether. It’s just borders on the ridiculous and makes the deaf community look like a bunch of finger-pointers, pointing at each other, at the recess yard way back to grade school.

    It’s not avoiding the issue of definition, the USE of the word itself has become the issue. That’s why I’d like to see the word booted out of the deaf blogosphere.

    Would that all of us would think twice before calling another d/Deaf person an “audist”. We all have suffered oppression from the hearing world, and then to be called an audist by one of our own is like being swatted down for no good reason. Why the nastiness?

  28. Deaf Anon Says:

    Ann_C,

    Maybe the deaf community is not ready for the word “audism” yet.

    In the Black culture, they use Uncle Tom as a dsyconscious racism (b)lack person.

    Maybe for the Deaf culture, we can use Uncle Barry or Uncle Russell or Uncle Paotie, etc as a dsyconscious audism (d)eaf person so we can understand the concept of what is meant.

    What do you think?

  29. Ann_C Says:

    Deaf Anon,

    Let me put it this way:

    Would you like to be called an Uncle Barry? Uncle Russell? or Uncle Paotie?

    Would you like to be called an audist?

    You wouldn’t like it?

    Same here.

  30. Paotie Says:

    Tayler ..

    Last year, you wrote on the official DeafRead web site, “we are just an aggregator”

    http://www.deafread.com/blog/?p=270

    Here in the comments, you wrote: “We clarified that we hold no position”

    Rubbish.

    Jared Evans posted in 2006 that he wanted and sought to recruit Deafhood proponents to utilize DeafRead as a means to advance his beliefs that Deafhood was his personal lord and personal savior and HALLUELUYAH!

    “.. I wanted more people to experience the exposure which reverberated deeply within me.”

    ” .. the DeafRead.com website that I co-developed with Tayler Mayer .. that this special-purpose website .. the filtered aggregator of DeafRead.com .. [the Deafhood] group can take full advantage of this new way to communicate to help increase exposure to Deafhood. .. I felt that the Deafhood blog could easily get 3,000-4,000 hits per day and would be much more effective way to share information than an email campaign or a website that isn’t continually kept up to date with latest information.”

    http://www.jaredlog.com/?p=534

    Is that adopting “no position”? NOT.

    Also, he didn’t say nuthin’ about commercial interests, neither. In essence, DeafRead was created to advance Mr. Evans’ personal beliefs as well – as you alluded earlier in the comments here – to “make ends meet” by pimping out Deafhood, at the expense of the wider “community.”

    You sold out, homeboy.

    :o)

    Paotie

  31. Deaf Anon Says:

    Ann_C,

    Black culture use Uncle Tom for those dsyconscious racism (b)lack person.

    Why the Deaf culture can’t have a identifiable name for dsyconscious audism (d)eaf person?

    I don’t think that I will ever be called “Uncle Paotie” or “Uncle Barry” or “Uncle Russell” because I don’t have that attitude.

    Comprensivo?

  32. Ann_C Says:

    Deaf Anon,

    You don’t have “that” attitude?

    Your attitude IS rather apparent. Are you “better” than an Uncle Barry?

    Sheez. *banging my head against the keyboard*

  33. Anonymous Says:

    Sheez Ann_C, it takes an ignorant person to bang her head against the keyboard!

    Last year, many deaf people idolize Barry and his Signing Circle group but many left him after realizing the real color of Barry and that explains about Barry’s attitude.

    Me? no way I have that dominating attitude at all.

  34. Karen Mayes Says:

    Oh my goodness.

    *shaking my head*

    That’s what Ann_C has been talking about… “that” attitude.

  35. Nesmuth Says:

    Theres no “visionsim”, no “mobilism”, no “sanityisms” either. Yet the blind, plegics, and the retarded gets their $$$$ and their help faster.

    Blind people get free US Postage, higher SSI and SSDI, and lucrative VR support. Wheelchair bound programs gets their priority funding. And most of the retarded people gets almost $20,000 a month in living support.

    Why don’t the deaf people get free postage, higher SSI/SSDI, lucrative VR support, priority funding for social programs, and $20,000 a month living support. Why? You can ask the deaf elitists for the answer.

    The deaf elitists continues to embarrass the whole deaf community chasing after a word that should not exist in the first place. This is why California’s Office of Deaf Access only gets a $6-$7 million a year whilst the rest of the state’s disability services gets over $100 million a year.

    Now you can see why the deaf community are treated like street dust.

    Maybe if the elitists stop chasing after “audism” their lives will get better or maybe it’s too late for that.

  36. ireflections09 Says:

    Deaf Anon and Anonymous at 9:07 pm:

    It’s obvious that my 8:50 pm comment went over your head.

    Calling a d/Deaf person an Uncle Barry is calling him an audist by proxy.

    A nickname ain’t gonna sugarcoat the veiled prejudice.

    Which says a lot about your attitude.

  37. White Ghost Says:

    Ann_C,

    I suggest you to delete Deaf Anon, Sept 24, 7:58 PM and Anonymous, Sept 24 at 9:07 PM.

    I thought that these two statements are very hurtful.

    *Shaking my head*

  38. ireflections09 Says:

    WG,

    I understand how you feel, but sometimes such comments expose problems and need to be addressed directly.

    That’s why I have a thick skin. *smile*

    Thanks.

  39. White Ghost Says:

    Anonymous — Sept 24 at 10:13 PM

    Sorry, I lost respect for you.

    Ann_C — please delete this Anon Sept 24 10:13 PM

    Thanks —

  40. gamas Says:

    No, WG, let the comment stay, it shows the world the truth.

  41. ireflections09 Says:

    Anonymous at 10:13 pm:

    I deleted your comment which was a personal attack on WG. Another crack like that and you’re banned.

  42. White Ghost Says:

    Thanks — Ann_C.

    Attacking on these bad sentiments isn’t proper.

  43. ireflections09 Says:

    Paotie,

    In reference to your last comment, I have a question– who owns DR? Tayler, Jared, or both?

  44. Paotie Says:

    Ann_C ..

    I do not know who owns DeafRead. Perhaps both own DeafRead. Perhaps neither.

    I only know who created and RUNS/manages DeafRead – Tayler and/or Jared. There are comments online from either Tayler or Jared that describe the DR Editors as being paid “pennies” for their contributions to DeafRead, so it is possible another entity (or individual) owns DeafRead and the Editors are merely paid employees.

    Interesting.

    Somebody ought to ask Tayler how he is compensated for DeafRead.

    :o)

    Paotie

  45. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    Taylerinfomedia includes DR, DVTV, CalDeaf, fomdi, Jewish Deaf Congress, DeafTube, and DeafDC.com. Are these sites owned or just managed by Tayler? I notice that Purple is now a sponsor of DR and DVTV, for example. Obviously, there is funding coming from this sponsor. Many people assume that Tayler owns Taylerinfomedia, but there is nowhere on any of the sites that indicate private ownership. Taylerinfomedia may be a corporation which means that there has to be some officers of the company, CEO, CFO, etc.

  46. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    According to this web site, Tayler owns TaylerInfoMedia, and describes it as, “TaylerInfomedia, a Los Angeles web development and Internet ventures company owned by Tayler Mayer, who is deaf.”

    http://www.deafweekly.com/backissues/113005.htm

    There are numerous instances online in which Tayler is described as the “owner” of TaylerInfoMedia. Do you know the business registration requirements for California? For LLCs, or incorporations or those registered as sole proprietors?

    Interesting. One thing is for sure: Tayler has long been actively involved in the Relay/VRS industries.

    :o)

    Paotie

  47. White Ghost Says:

    Interesting, Paotie…..

    Then why would he involve the relay/VRS industries when he publicly purposed to have the petition to against the Sorenson last year or two? Things are now quiet lately since FCC announced that there is a delay for the 10-digit number chaos. Go over there and read Jeff Rosen’s statement. IMO, I think his statement doe not make any sense.

    Take a look at Viable’s problem. They are working on collaborating with Attorneys and FBIs relating to the Spams/hackers issues/problems.

    Here’s

    http://deafpundit.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/complaint-filed-against-sorenson

  48. White Ghost Says:

    oopps! change on Sept 25, 2009 at 4:05 PM from purposed to proposed…..

  49. Paotie Says:

    Another link from Tayler stating his purpose for DeafRead was to advance Deafhood:

    July 31, 2006, “Maybe I’m too hopeful that with the time DeafRead saves us, we can go farther into the lands of Deafhood–or whatever destination we wish for!”

    http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx?q=http://www.deafread.com/go/3792

  50. gamas Says:

    Paotie, quite revealing.

    WG, from my understanding the local ten digit number is supposed to be assigned to every video phone and/or computer that uses Relay. Not only does it enables 911 dispatchers to know your location but also involves interoperability. Right now, too many people are not aware of it and many VP does not have it. That’s the reason FCC is postponing the deadline.

  51. White Ghost Says:

    Gamas,

    That’s what I thought. I don’t think Deaf Pundit and Jeff Rosen realized that.

    However, it’s gonna be sticky situation since the viable collapsed.

    Paotie…whoa…..you shaved into much deeper.

  52. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    Well, I did a WHOIS on DeafDC and was surprised to see the information that was posted. Keep in mind WHOIS is public and anyone can check it out.

    Apparently, Shane Feldman – whom was recently hired at NAD – is the registration contact for DeafDC.com. And for some reason, he listed Viable as the Admin Organization.

    Domain name: DeafDC.com

    Administrative Contact:
    Viable
    Shane Feldman (info@deafdc.com)

    Technical Contact:
    Viable
    Shane Feldman (info@deafdc.com)

    Registrant Contact:
    Viable
    Shane Feldman ()

    http://www.whois.net/whois/DeafDC.com

  53. Ann_C Says:

    Click on “Taylerinfomedia” to the upper right of the DR page. Scroll thru the box of website screenshots and you’ll see “DeafDC.com”.

  54. Paotie Says:

    More on Deafhood. California Association of the Deaf has apparently required members to be “part of Deafhood” to be considered as potential officers. This means if you do not adhere to the concept of Deafhood – and it is a THEORY at best – then you are NOT qualified to be an officer of CAD.

    Thanks to RR for posting the vlog:

    http://eyefirevlogs.com/eyefire2/?p=810

    Is Tayler a member of CAD?

  55. White Ghost Says:

    Ha, ha, ha! Shane Feldman hollered NAD to help him getting the lawsuit against the Washington Redskins for over the captioning. And then, NAD got very impressed with him and his potential for winning the case. The reason: an ex-viable employee. That’s why they hired him and expected him for doing the same thing. They also considered him the star of the NAD.

    CAD, Thank you for having me for being deaf person, but no thanks.

  56. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    Feldman is an ex-Viable employee? How does one verify that?

  57. White Ghost Says:

    You mentioned that NAD recently hired Shane. I could be wrong but Viable has collapsed. I did not think it’ll be fully secured. Who knows?

  58. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    Here it is: http://www.deafdc.com/blog/category/past-bloggists/rob-rice/

    “in doing so, has transferred all rights to DeafDC.com and Deaf Professional Happy Hour (DPHH) to Viable, Inc. (www.viable.net), a provider of video and text relay services. Viable has been the exclusive sponsor of the DC DPHH and truthfully, is a better fit and more importantly are as passionate about DeafDC.com.”

    So .. Viable didn’t pay the employees and Feldman gets hired at NAD.

    Also, the author of that article states, “Viable also cares about the positive impact that our website has had on the community and intends to ensure its continued growth and prominence. To achieve that, Viable intends to turn DeafDC.com into an independent entity, complete with its own advisory board. I will join that newly formed advisory board and as always you can count on me to read and comment on blogs. I wouldn’t want it any way otherwise.”

    Viable sponsors DeafDC. Purple sponsors DeafRead/DVTV.

    What’s wrong with this picture?

  59. Paotie Says:

    Above article was posted on Fri 9 Nov 2007.

  60. White Ghost Says:

    Understood, Paotie. I *think* the reason why the DeafDC.com had to step down after the popular CI blogger got kicked out from Deafread.

  61. White Ghost Says:

    Guys, Guys, Guys!

    Russell E. just vlogged about “Deafhood in CAD Bylaws?” Go over there, DVTV site.

  62. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    Jared Evans was biased against AVT/CI from way back when, and is why the popular CI blogger – who also advocated AVT/CI – was banned from DeafRead.

    http://www.deafread.com/blogger/11

    (from DR cache – the article is missing now)

    CI/AVT vlogs/blogs are a reality now
    Jared Evans AVT/CI is starting their v/blog propaganda attack via cochlearimplant.net. If you look at the same domain in the Wayback Machine, you’ll see that it used to be a plain vanilla website. It has not changed much over the years which leads me to believe that this is a thinly-veiled PR ploy by CI corporations. The website claims to be maintained by a […]

    Above was posted June 02, 2007

  63. brenster- Says:

    So, that is the bigger fish y’all are frying? Interesting use of time, haha.

  64. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    How does one get this missing article? Aargh!

  65. White Ghost Says:

    Ha, ha, ha…..I’m having a big, big fish to unfry. It’s healthy. 😛

  66. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    I dunno. I know at least ONE DR Editor besides Evans who has deleted some of her articles, especially ones that denounced AG Bell, so .. I dunno if they’ve got something to hide or if they changed their minds about certain things or not.

  67. gamas Says:

    SnapVRS bought out Viable. So…I don’t know if Snap snapped up former Viable employees or not….

    Wow, this is all interesting…. Is CAD the only state association that requires its members be a deafhood follower to be an officer? What about NAD by-laws? This is too freaky.

    Ann_C, The only way to get missing articles is to click on “Cache” in google searches for a snapshot when Google crawls the web.

  68. gamas Says:

    Here’s the article, Ann_C

    http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:vNqeoTkS1yEJ:www.jaredlog.com/%3Fp%3D665+%22CI/AVT+vlogs/blogs+are+a+reality+now+%22&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

  69. Paotie Says:

    gamas ..

    Thanks. Evans evidently believes there is a “war” goin’ on between AVT/CI and ASL groups.

    ” Has the centuries-old war between ASL and Oralism moved onto the new battlefield of v/blogs?”

    So much for “open discussions” on DeafRead, and no wonder Tayler said, “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”

    Stupid.

  70. White Ghost Says:

    Hey Ann_C.

    Since your’e an oral and cannot understand the DVTV, here is the website address…..

    http://www.cad1906.org

    press on the left side, “CAD Existing Laws” and link on pdf

    You will read the whole thing and find “Deafhood”

    It’s all boo-hoo. IRS will learn from this……

  71. White Ghost Says:

    ha, ha, ha Welcome to the Green Couch party!

    Got to get a big, big fish to unfry!

  72. Ann_C Says:

    Thanks, gamas and WG, for the links.

    “Bigger fish to fry” is turning into something else, all right.

  73. gamas Says:

    Here, Jarod concludes his assumptions on said site based on nothing but suspicions. And, the question is: Did Tayler use that as his “evidence” to ban the said blog? Remember, he never came out and procure evidence.

    “I wrote that I was highly suspicious of the website cochlearimplant.net which seemed to amount to nothing more than a secret push by CI corporations to spin the positive sides of infant cochlear implantation and Audio-Verbal Therapy.

    I have read the private forum posts that put to rest my doubts about the website.”

    http://www.jaredlog.com/?p=672

  74. Paotie Says:

    gamas ..

    It is clear that Tayler and Jared ultimately expressed prejudice against the CI blogger. Pretty sad and pathetic.

    And if they represent Deafhood, then all the same: what a crappy way to live life – permanently paranoid.

    Unless of course, they wanted to create hysteria to pad their paychecks, which seems to be the case more than anything.

  75. White Ghost Says:

    Well…..Ridor would have love this. That’ll give Ridor a new nickname, “Riddler”, a character from the Batman series/movies. Since he got banned, he always talked about DR editors, especially, Tayler via youtube.

    Double standards as nothing changed……

    If they care about the sponsors that runs the Deafread’s aggregator, then, don’t say bad things about the communication modes and CIs.

    However, perhaps, they broke the old sponsor’s commitment before Purple came aboard the Deafread.

  76. Karen Mayes Says:

    Wow… is all I can say.

    I have a friend who worked for Viable and she relocated to MD from here, Indiana, just right before FCC showed up on Viable’s doorstep, nosing around for fraud (this past June.) Luckily, her husband stayed behind, holding down the job… planning to leave once he found another job, in MD. Now everything is different and my friend is planning to move back to here, jobless, from what I understand.

    VRS, DeafHood, DR, DVTV, CI, etc…what’s next? All right, now I am heading over to DVTV to view Russell’s vlog. Deaf cyberspace is full of paranoia which does create interesting stories to follow, huh? Drama!

    *shaking my head*

    ;o)

  77. White Ghost Says:

    WTF!

    Go to Russell’s vlog, “Deafhood in CAD By Laws” see comment #134 and #135

    Jon just mentioned that any hearing person cannot become the CAD board! Even with the hearing person with ASL and came from deaf family!

    Rats!

  78. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    I guess CODAs are unworthy people in CAD’s world.

    Stupid is as stupid does. What a bunch of cads at CAD.

    :o)

    Paotie

  79. Ann_C Says:

    What I find rather disheartening is that CAD is practicing the same lack of respect for d/Deaf who hold different views. There are d/Deaf (and now CODAS) out there who don’t give a fig about the Deafhood philosophy and yet are excluded from qualifying for an officer’s position in CAD, according to its by-laws.

    Deafhood is a “country club rule” now.

  80. Paotie Says:

    Not only that, but the reduction of potential candidates for members/officers through the Deafhood requirement further narrows the available talent pool that CAD could utilize to help improve services, access to communication, civil rights support and so on for the community.

    Of course, there is the additional aspect that a person could pretend to buy into the Deafhood philosophy, join CAD, and later, destroy the entire organization, whether out of revenge or another purpose.

    Sound familiar?

    *shrugs*

  81. White Ghost Says:

    Now it’s halftime at the football game….

    Checked Russell’s vlog, and Jon replied to Palock, comment #166…..makes no sense! His comments are a far worse that I thought. Horrible.

    Surprised no one blogged for Deafread about the CAD’s chaos in the DVTV. Bummer.

    Well, now, I’m waiting for 3rd quarter to start. Bye-bye…..

  82. gamas Says:

    Jon said that if Barry lived in Cali and met all the requirement, he would also have met the requirement for deafhood even if he rejects it only because he is involved in the deaf community. Ahh, let’s see if Aidan agrees with that! 😉

  83. White Ghost Says:

    Then, if Barry lived in Cali and become a member for CAD, Ella will mortify for it….:razz:

  84. Paotie Says:

    gamas ..

    You crack me up.

    LOL

  85. White Ghost Says:

    Football game is over.

    Anyway, I fist-smack Russell’s vlog, comment #167. He cracked me up! Ha, ha, ha. Go over there. It’s funny.

  86. Paotie Says:

    Okay.

    First, I was gonna cite Jaime Berke’s DEAFNESS.About.com article, but then, I realized, Aidan Mack believes Berke is not part of the ASL deaf community cos she writes for a medical-based web site, i.e. “DEAFNESS.about.com.”

    Will Aidan produce another knife-wielding vlog?! Stay tuned!

    Okay. “Audism” as defined by Tom “Poor Me” Humphries: “to mean an attitude that people who hear and speak, or have good English are superior.”

    Have any of you ever been to TMZ or another major web site and seen the comments there? Whenever a person leaves a poorly-written comment, they tend to bashed and trashed with alarming impunity. Heck, even those comments with great English but a poor logical construct are fair game for people to bash and trash.

    I ain’t seen nobody complain about it, really. Though, with “audism,” the difference between people who lack English command and people like Poor Me Humphries is the basic fact that one can hear and one cannot.

    In otherwords, Poor Me Humphries took the Speshal Edukation route – like, all deaf people ought to be protected from horrible comments because they should NOT be treated like regular, hearing people – but like poor, pitied deaf people.

    Did you know the average newspaper publishes content for sixth grade (or maybe 8th grade – I forget) reading level? Does anyone ever wonder why? If the entire United States population had terrific English command, do you think we would have newspapers watering down their content to sixth/eighth grade reading levels?

    NOPE! We’d all be reading doctoral dissertations during Toilet Time.

    What of people who learn English as a Second Language (ESL)? Is there some stupid term to describe their pity-parties? “ESLism?”

    Audism is an absurd idea, notion, concept and whatever the hell it was s’posed to be, man.

    DUMB!

  87. Paotie Says:

    Ahh .. yes.

    HuggyAngels .. somebody is feeding her that crap she is posting at DVTV.

    Anyway, let us ponder: WHY do people look down on deaf people?

    To use audism as an example – people would look down upon deaf people if the word “audism” was utilized the way the Deafhood cads want it used: for speshul protekshun.

    Want to be seen as equal to hearing people? Then quit acting like a speshul edukashun freak and that ain’t no knock on those who are actually in Special Education, neither.

    I do not think HuggyAngels could even understand that, so she will always be part of that little group of deaf people who feel inferior to all things in the world, act like they are inferior to all things in the world, and make arguments that are inherently inferior to their own logic – all because they DO NOT HEAR. Conversely, if they were smart, they would understand the fact that because they use ASL as their dominant language, they have no need for special protection since, after all, they are fluent in a language that most hearing people ain’t fluent.

    “Audism” – it ought to defined as, “People who feel they are inferior and make up stupid words to describe their inferiority complexes.”

  88. White Ghost Says:

    Ahhh….Don’t forget that Tom Humphries has a nickname….Humpty Dumpty.

    I have never understand HuggyAngel’s. I never clicked hers at all.

    Lucky me…..My english skills aren’t purrfect but pretty good. I can TALK! Use ASL.

    Not a labeled deafhqqd. Not even to wear the DH armband. (See comment #167) Thank G*d I didn’t go to the DH workshop. Thanks, but no thanks. Pffffft! 😉

    Audism…. is not existed word.

  89. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    What you speak of reminds me of the affirmative action mandate for African American equal access to higher education. Some African Americans decry it because it makes them look like they need “special help” with their higher educations.

    Another term is “carrying a chip on his shoulder”. 🙂

  90. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    Yup.

    Somebody’s got to hold ‘dem Deafhoodies’ hands through life. Poor things.

    I have a positive outlook on life and it has nothing to do with being deaf or fluent in PSE/ASL. I don’t need Deafhood for that. I ain’t no victim of nuthin’, though I have experienced discrimination in my life – I choose not to be defined as a victim. I don’t need nuthin’ from Deaf World or Culture to feel as a whole person by declaring myself a victim of some imagined oppression (and even if there WAS oppression, it wouldn’t help me to walk around and yell at people, “I am a victim! You must bow down before me before I victimize you! I am a victim!”)

    I go to the gym every day because I wanna be healthy. I go to grappling gyms three times a week because I enjoy the sport. I read a copious amount of literature everyday because that is what I do and it makes me happy. I talk .. TALK .. to many people everyday because I enjoy people of all walks of life. I’d sign to deaf people if there were some ’round these parts, but there ain’t, so I can’t do nuthin’ about that and I ain’t gonna recruit no deaf people to live here just so that I could complete my Deafhood training program. I eat organic foods, not because I am a green freak but because most of the organic foods I buy come from local producers, and I’d rather know my money went to help my local community and not some producer from China that sends crap to Wally World.

    I don’t need no bloody English bloke to define me, even though he had to write a 500-page manifesto that nobody understands just so that he could feel .. “whole.”

    Dumb.

  91. White Ghost Says:

    Hey Paotie…..

    Oh yea. I don’t need ’em to capture me and force me into the DH workshop before I become the board member.

    Of course, we all have lived the same experience facing the discrimination. Hell, I wouldn’t let ’em get to me, my job is to prove ’em that I can do it all by myself. I don’t need to holler for some help.

    Twenty years from now, the deaf population will be smaller and smaller. CAD will get more CI members. Perhaps, the numbers of the CAD members will be declined. They will have no choice but will get more diverse people among the communication modes to join the CAD. They will be forced to remove the DH from the bylaws. No choice. I would not be surprised. No question mark.

    Queen Ella and the followers at CAD did not play it very smart.

  92. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    ‘I don’t need no bloody English bloke to define me, even though he had to write a 500-page manifesto that nobody understands just so that he could feel .. “whole.”’ LOL.

    You sure are in your element. *grin*

  93. Karen Mayes Says:

    Hee… I have to admit that I went to Deafhood workshop three years ago. And read Paddy’s book (a bit LONG, but had interesting historical tidbits and I enjoyed it SOME of the book… I skimmed pretty much.) But somehow a few deaf people picked that book and changed it into a spiritual book (I did not say “religious”, but maybe I should have said it anyway.) Deafhood workshop did leave me a few conflicting messages because the trio (not GG who was a bit more professional… mostly Ella and DE) kept pointing to AGBell and hearing people for the deaf people’s “plight”, etc. Because I majored in anthropology and sociology at Westminster College, I learned enough to know that not everything was rosy all the time on the earth, that it’s about surviving on the earth, that the unfit was and is usually weeded out, etc., and even it continues today and will continue in the future. That was when I started voicing my skepticism, especially when they claimed that deaf people had better lives than we do nowadays, going far to “glorify” Paris banquets, etc… hell no, they DID not. What about Africa? India? Asia? Americas? Not much is said about the histories of deaf people in those continents. I do know that histories are rewritten by victors, so this is no exception in this case.

    I mean, look at hearing communities… they also have the same problems… illiteracy, full of “isms”, etc. That’s why I kept saying that it was all opinions and perspectives and no matter how hard we fight, things will always pop up. At least there are some sane people who know what goes on in real life and they don’t mince words about it, unlike other people who choose to wear the horse binders *shrug*

  94. White Ghost Says:

    Karen M.

    “At least there are some sane people who know what goes on in real life and they don’t mince words about it, unlike other people who choose to wear the horse binders.”

    Well, Barry Sewell’s latest vlog, “The Bison Jump” It applies to the Independent Thinkers. That’s what you meant. For instance, my choice is not to participate the CAD or else. It’s about my individuals that have given me many opportunities to choose and participate anything I want. It’s about my life.

    I wouldn’t let other people to label me that I’m part of the “deafhood” “just because I am deaf.” No, thanks.

    That’s what Jon Lenois said in comment #166 at Russell’s vlog, “Deafhood in CAD bylaws?” Labeling on people who are deaf, “a part of Deafhood” wouldn’t do any good. I got a fist on him for saying that. *Shrug*

  95. White Ghost Says:

    Oh, one more thing……how about the Cochlear Implanthood? No way we can use that word, eventhough, they have an organization, Cochlear Implant Association Foundation as for an instance.

    What the Queen Ella and the followers thinking?

    LOL. *Shakes head*

  96. Karen Mayes Says:

    WG,

    Exactly. We believe in ourselves, feel secure about ourselves… people who try to label us, etc… they apparently feel threatened by us.

    You noticed at how many youtube vlogs are targeted at Barry and Russell? Both of them have not made any vlogs targeting anyone even though they have a few disagreements with a few certain people… Like Paotie’s satire writing, it would lead us to interpret his postings differently… we’d choose to feel threatened and act out or just to mull over what he wrote and acknowledge that his observations were valid, etc. I see some people don’t have the degree of *cough* comprehension not to take it personally, huh?

    Or Deaflesshood? Ha.

    Hoods and isms. LOL.

  97. Paotie Says:

    Karen ..

    “He who controls the past controls the future.”

    That statement is attributed to George Orwell, who wrote the book, “1984” about Big Brother.

    Dianrez claims that CI companies manipulate ASL deaf people because they offer medical liabilities release forms in English, which means that she believes ASL deaf people are purposefully misguided and manipulated by CI companies due to their lack of English skills.

    Deafhood seminars are the same thing but in reverse: it is the idea that because ASL deaf people lack English skills required to understand Paddy Ladd’s book, there is a need to interpret his claims into ASL through the seminars. And those interpretations have been by people such as Ella who hate other people, whether hearing or oral deaf.

    The “Oralism vs ASL War” is only a construct in the minds of a few ASL deaf leaders who want to manipulate the wider ASL community to consolidate political influence (and power). It is easier to tell people, “They hate us! We must defeat them! Off to war we go!” than it is to tell people, “AG Bell and EG Gallaudet wanted the same thing but went about it differently.”

    Controlling information is a form of oppression – especially in a democratic society. Deafhood seminars and leaders (which includes Tayler and Jared) do just that by utilizing “audism” to restrict and prevent the availability of dissenting ideas and thoughts regarding all things in ASL deaf world.

    “He who controls the past controls the future.”

    Indeed.

  98. Ann_C Says:

    Karen M,

    I was also somewhat skeptical of the glorified picture that Paddy Ladd painted of Deaf history in his book. True, there are very few recorded instances of Deaf history, probably because few Deaf were literate enough to write down history to begin with, as was also true for many hearing people back in the day. The Catholic Church for centuries was practically the only institution in which literacy was practiced because the Jesuits came from the higher classes and did the writings for the Church.

    Europe, particularly France, was at the height of Western civilization when Abbe L’Epee pioneered sign language, the first schools for the Deaf were founded thanks to the influence of the Catholic Church, the French Deaf founded their own communities, and the Deaf Paris banquets took place.

    But it still was not an enlightened time in Europe, as many deaf people were still treated like idiots and some were placed in insane asylums. There was virtually nothing in the way of technology to assist hearing loss in those times. We don’t know how the Deaf were treated in other cultures and places because there are so few recorded instances.

    If anything, the d/Deaf born in the last couple of centuries have had it a lot easier than previous generations. Civilization also advanced with the discovery of different communication modes, more inclusion of the d/Deaf in the education system and within society, and more recently, technology that can assist some hearing losses.

    I find it ironic that Deafhood glorifies a throwback to the Paris banquets, to a time when sign language was the only communication mode for the Deaf and when deaf people couldn’t own property, had few recourses to making a living, and experienced other restrictions on their civil rights.

    Some Deafhood presenters have master’s or doctorate’s degrees, own property, can vote, can marry other Deaf, and yes, are free “to pimp their Deafhood”, as Paotie has put it, thanks to the many advances in our century.

  99. Karen Mayes Says:

    Paotie… it has been DECADES since I read that book, in high school, especially in my senior year at high school (I graduated in 1983.) I forgot about the quotation you just explained it, in referring to my comment that the victors rewriting histories. Now, I get your point… it is a matter of manipulating information, to reach to certain targets. Oppression… hmm… actually, we all are oppressed and oppressors in our everyday life, in one way or another.

    That’s why I told Tayler not to put the word “audism” to his R-List because it would spread like wildfire and make him more liable for lawsuits, since audism is not in legal system. I used to work at a legal publishing company after college, as an editorial production associate, and I quickly learned how the codes/laws came into existence, etc. Audism is not even exisiting in the legal system yet. And yet deaf community is using the word audism (or more, dysconsious audism nowadays, explaining deaf vs deaf) as a form of oppression…

    Thanks for explaining more about mass media, how it’s constructed and how we influence and allow it influence certain targets. It’s like Hitler targeting disgruntled citizens at the start of his rising to power, Gandhi talking to the mass about nonviolence, MLK, even terrorists such as Osama bin Laden, etc.

    :o) Yup, to the quotation “He who controls the past controls the future.”

  100. the one and only ridor Says:

    Interesting. This site is a haven for White Ghost, Paotie, Ann_C, Gamas and Karen Mayes. *shrugs*

    But I agreed with Paotie about Tayler Mayer — DR/DVTV has gradually declined mainly because it does not serve a platform *everyone*. It only caters to the ones that *agrees* with Tayler’s issues. If you disagree with him, you’re screwed, figuratively and literally.

    That goes for everyone who is pro-ASL or pro-CI shit.

    R-

  101. Paotie Says:

    Karen ..

    You said: “we all are oppressed and oppressors in our everyday life, in one way or another”

    I disagree with that. In the dictionary, “oppression” is defined as:

    ▸ noun: the act of subjugating by cruelty (“The tyrant’s oppression of the people”)
    ▸ noun: a feeling of being oppressed
    ▸ noun: the state of being kept down by unjust use of force or authority

    The definition of “oppress”:

    ▸ verb: come down on or keep down by unjust use of one’s authority (“The government oppresses political activists”)
    ▸ verb: cause to suffer

    Where in the above definitions would be a regular, everyday example of you both oppressing someone and someone else oppressing you?

    Good point you brought up, by the way.

  102. Paotie Says:

    Ridor ..

    You said: “DR/DVTV has gradually declined mainly because it does not serve a platform *everyone*. It only caters to the ones that *agrees* with Tayler’s issues. If you disagree with him, you’re screwed, figuratively and literally.”

    I agree. I really don’t care how he runs his web site, but his insistence that he is “neutral” and “objective” is self-defeating for him, especially with the way he applies the rules, whether Guidelines at DR, or the R-List at DVTV, which I know little about and don’t care.

    Like your YouTube site, though – and I hope MORE people follow your example and move away from DVTV/DR.

    BTW, Family Guy rules.

    🙂

    Paotie

  103. Ann_C Says:

    Ridor,

    Well, my blog’s still here, and I’m sure Tayler knows how I feel about this Deafhood business. The trouble is, I don’t know what Tayler’s issues are or where he stands. You and others don’t either. Should Tayler declare his stand on issues on DR/ DVTV? He doesn’t for reasons that he probably cannot divulge publicly.

    Just the same, if we did know just what Tayler’s issues are, is that reason enough to shut you or me up?

    Nice of you to drop by.

  104. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    To add to your European historical context, it might help for people to understand that not just the deaf were maligned in societies, but also the poor and illiterate (and also gay/lesbians), as well. As you mentioned, the Churches took advantage of the illiteracy of the masses and facilitated fear and hysteria by claiming people who went against the teachings of the Church (through interpreting the Bible as they saw fit – King James is a great example) were perpetuating heresy against the Church and God.

    I mean, for goodness’ sakes, people actually believed the King of England was a personal friend of God, like they had regular, daily chit-chats over tea. But then, many of those English kings were murderous and adulterous kings who saw nothing of it to declare, “Off with their heads!” if a person disagreed with the King/Church of England.

    Same in Italy. France. Spain. Etc.

    The disadvantaged population, such as mentally ill, blind, deaf and gay/lesbian people were often labeled as some sort of evil caricatures from the Bible. So, in the late 19th century, human civilization had not quite evolved to be civil towards “different” populations, and the treatment of European foreigners in America during the early stages of the Industrial Revolution also illustrates the mistreatment of not just deaf people but millions of other people who were deemed “different”, whether by class, association or disability or sexuality.

    What is often missing in the discussions about 1880 is the historical context of the times people lived. To be deaf in 1788 was a near death-sentence; same for blind people; people with cerebral palsy, mental illness, gay/lesbians, and so on. By 1880, few people understand anything about deaf people beyond a small, select group of people.

  105. Paotie Says:

    Ack! Hit “Submit Comment” by accident.

    Last point in the above comment: by 1880, few people understood anything about deaf people beyond a small, select group of people. Still, to be born deaf anywhere not on the east coast was a major problem for any deaf person, and because society did not know what to do with deaf people, they were shipped to institutions and asylums, often never from again.

    Yes. I do think it is a sad, tragic tale and it bothers me today because I shudder to think that it could’ve happened to me if I had been born in 1501, 1601, 1701 and even in 1880 if I didn’t live near the eastern coast of the United States.

    I am grateful we all live in America and have the opportunity to yell, scream, cuss and shout about what we believe in today. A little over a century ago, our lives hung in the balance based on sheer luck and little else.

  106. White Ghost Says:

    Ridor/Paotie —

    Ahhh. Nice of you, Ridor, to stop by and be nice to all of us.

    “DR/DVTV has gradually declined mainly because it does not serve a platform everyone. It only caters to the ones that agrees with Tayler’s issues. If you disagree with him, you screwed, figuratively and literally.”

    Same for Dr. Don G’s new aggregator. (V/Bloggers who walked out from the DR/DVTV to attend the new aggregator.) What and Who’s next?

    It’s nice for both of you, Ridor and Paotie to agree something together. Do it, “Come and watch, Paotie and I” or “Come and watch, Ridor and I” 😉

  107. White Ghost Says:

    ……or “Come and watch, Paotie and Ridor”, exclusively.

    LOL.

  108. Joseph Pietro Riolo Says:

    I am sorry that I can’t spend too much time participating in the blogs but could not resist the temptation to drop a very brief note.

    I noticed that Ms. Karen Mayes and Ann_C mentioned glorification of Deaf history in their comments. The word that I want to mention is “romanticization”. Some synonyms could be “sentimentalization” and “idealization”. Deafhood, in a way, could be an attempt to romanticize the Deaf history and thereby present a grossly distorted history of deaf people.

    I have to go back to the lurking mode. 🙂

    Joseph Pietro Riolo
    josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

    Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.

  109. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    “Where in the above definitions would be a regular, everyday example of you both oppressing someone and someone else oppressing you?”

    I’m presuming you mean “someone” and “someone else” as two different people…if the words mean the same person, then that would be an oxymoron.

    Like I ‘nag’ hubby and the mother-in-law criticizes my housekeeping. 😉

    How about Tayler booting off Ridor and Tayler is called an audist by a group of ASL Deaf vloggers, for another example?

    That’s why the original intent of my blog article was to get people to understand that respect isn’t earned by oppressing others who disagree with you, that in fact the need to do that means you’ve got work on yourself to do first. That’s still the bigger fish to fry.

  110. Karen Mayes Says:

    Joseph, thanks… I could not think of a better word… romanticizing.

    Yup, it’s nice to be a lurker… safer… sometimes.

    Paotie, about oppression which calls for a degree of violence as you explained. OK, what is the better word? Discrimination?

  111. Ann_C Says:

    Joseph,

    Like the term “idealization” better. Being Deaf in 1501, 1601, 1701, 1880 was certainly far from ideal.

    Romanticizing historical Deafness is more like romanticizing the “closer to Nature” or “wild” aspect of deafness that was discussed during the Romantic era in Victorian times, and I don’t ascribe to that.

  112. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    Yes, two different people.

    Karen .. I didn’t say anything about violence. I listed the definitions of “oppression” and “oppress” from dictionary.com.

    Remember, you said, “we all are oppressed and oppressors in our everyday life, in one way or another.”

    So, I am looking for examples of how, in everyday life, you are oppressed. And I am looking for an example of you oppressing someone, since you feel that in “everyday life,” you oppress someone “one way or another.”

    I am not picking on you at all. 😉 I am just trying to understand why you believe that statement. Perhaps I am missing something?

  113. Karen Mayes Says:

    Ah, I see William Safire passed away. When I visit my parents, I’d read Safire’s columns in Sunday’s NYT magazine and he’d explain why he picked the words to analyze, explaining the roots of them, etc. If he tackled the word “audism”, it would be a lot easier, less confusing, etc. to us.

    Oh well.

  114. Karen Mayes Says:

    Paotie, I was merely generalizing… like I always do (with a tongue in my cheek.)

    What I meant by the statement, is that we nag, debate, accuse, argue, flatter, etc., trying to influence people to listen to our way. Isn’t that a form of oppression? We read different things everyday, choosing to fall victim to the writer’s manipulation of words, etc. So we allow ourselves to be influenced and we influence other people with our opinoins, etc….

    Hey… don’t “opinions” and “oppression” share the same word root?

  115. White Ghost Says:

    In response to Karen at 10:06 PM

    In the legal system, they will use auditory discrimination, visual discrimination, amputee (sp?) discrimination and many more.

    Interestingly, the word, ableism in which founded in 1981 appeared in the Merriam-Webster dictionary. However the legal system has never recognized this word.

    Oppression is a proper word in general. I don’t think the word, “opinion” effect us to become oppressors…..or getting the oppressions. Therefore, it does not the same roots.

    Perhaps it could be the Reverse Oppressors/Oppressions. 😉

  116. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    You asked: “How about Tayler booting off Ridor and Tayler is called an audist by a group of ASL Deaf vloggers, for another example?”

    First of all, Tayler is notorious for his convenient selection and application of his vague rules and guidelines, whether at DR or DVTV. I do not know enough about DVTV’s R-List to apply my response based on Ridor’s situation with the DVTV R-List.

    If you recall, I blogged about the Guidelines at DeafRead and how they PROMOTED deaf-on-deaf attacks, and to that extent, Tayler is just as much at fault for whatever caused Ridor’s banning, however serious an infraction Ridor may have committed.

    That is not to excuse any wrongdoing on Ridor’s part, but to be fair to Ridor, how would a person know what the rules are and how they would be applied if Tayler himself routinely and selectively twisted the Guidelines at DeafRead, and only acted AFTER the fact?

    Remember, I once posted a picture on my blog and was immediately notified by DeafRead Editors that I had violated some Guideline involving risque pictures, and yet, about the same timeframe, there was a vlog/blog that appeared on the Main page of DR with the actual picture of an adult film starring a deaf woman.

    I was in violation of Guidelines while the other blogger was not. Why?

    Conflicting application of the Guidelines happened to me routinely on DeafRead as I outlined above. I would not know how a Guideline would be interpreted and enforced until AFTER the fact. The same holds true for the CI blogger who was unfairly banned (especially since Tayler readily admitted to hating AVT a few years ago).

    Again, I dunno enough about Ridor’s situation to really give you an answer on your question, but in terms of Tayler himself, he brought that whole incident with Ridor upon himself, as well as the alleged victims of whatever Ridor did (or did not do), and so therefore .. Tayler is just as guilty of wrongdoing as Ridor would be since, in the first place, Tayler created and faciitated that environment.

    Was it audistic? Since I discount the current mutation of “audism,” I do not believe Tayler was “audistic.” But, to use that group’s definition of “audism,” then yes, I would see why they would claim that, since after all, Tayler promoted deaf-on-deaf attacks during my time at DeafRead.

    Make sense?

  117. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    One more thing: even if Ridor was repeatedly warned by Tayler to not do something, again, Tayler created the environment that led to Ridor’s banishment, and frankly, how does one know how the Guidelines and R-List would be enforced if Tayler himself doesn’t apply the enforcement of the Guidelines/R-List in a consistent manner?

  118. Paotie Says:

    Karen ..

    You said: “choosing to fall victim to the writer’s manipulation of words”

    So, you’re saying you have fell victim to my words? I love satire and the reason why I love satire is because it leaves much to the imagination of the reader. I cannot control your brain, therefore, I cannot manipulate your brain.

    You choose to interpret my words in any way you read them – I am not that powerful. 🙂

    You also said: “we nag, debate, accuse, argue, flatter, etc., trying to influence people to listen to our way. Isn’t that a form of oppression?”

    Do you ever nag, argue, flatter, etc. with Brian? If so, are you saying you oppress your own husband? 🙂

  119. Karen Mayes Says:

    Hahaha… Oh, yeah, I do that with Brian ;o) Even Ann_C admits to nagging at her hubby.

    I’d not call “falling victim to the writer’s manipulation of words” (well, perhaps to a degree to burning down my kitchen a few years ago, I guess so… ); like you said, I choose to interpret your words or anyone’s words (or signs, for the matter) in order to make sense in my brain, influenced by my upbringing, my current enviornment, my beliefs, etc… When it does not make sense, I immediately discard.

    You make me smile about nagging at my hubby. It happens when you have been married for almost 15 years… ;o)

  120. Karen Mayes Says:

    Paotie, I believe that what happened to your postings when you were in DR was due to the reason that the human editors and Tayler had a hard time interpreting your satirical writing. You picked the words carefully to see if they caught or missed your meaning (or interpreted or misinterpreted… either way) and that it would reveal their “Achilles heel”. In a way, I thought it was cool because then they could choose to learn from the error and make changes to their guidelines instead of covering up or whatever.

    Hey, that is my perspection… as I recall in my 44-year-old brain ;o)

    WG, I get it. It’s just that the first two letters (“op-“) made me wonder. I looked up the root word “op-” and I appear to be unable to find it…

  121. Paotie Says:

    Karen ..

    SHAME ON YOU!

    HaHa!

    Anyway, manipulation by humans has a long history, dating back to cavemen. In fact, politics is often the manipulation of facts, statements, language, and emotions – that goes without saying.

    “Oppression” to me is when a person has no other choices to make, and someone, a government or group of people take advantage of that. (Note: for future anti-CI freaks who think children are oppressed whenever a child is implanted, to use your logic, one could say that children with residual hearing are oppressed whenever an anti-CI freak claims that ASL is the ONLY and BEST way for a child to be educated. Works both ways but children are not emotionally mature enough to make their own decisions).

    But if you wanna nag Brian, then go for it. 😉

  122. Paotie Says:

    Karen ..

    Well, truth is, I wrote whatever I wanted whenever I wanted however I wanted. I would never give the DR Editors that much control over my blog.

    They don’t deserve it, anyway.

    But, you know, I did learn that misunderstandings do happen a lot with much of my writing, which is really a hybrid of satire and my own style, whatever that is .. I write as I wanna write and that’s all there is to it.

    Yah. I remember being accused of “writing over deaf people’s heads” with my GO NAD! GO NAD! article.

    LOL

  123. Karen Mayes Says:

    LOL, yeah, GONAD! posting which got many people tittering, especially when they interpret it in “Freudian” way ;o)

    Misunderstandings could be a learning experience… forcing us to face our insecurities, huh? But it’s good to clear things up in the air.

    LOL.

  124. White Ghost Says:

    Paotie……

    Your comment at 11:29 PM already gave Tayler and the rest of the DR editors a shit time.

    It’s good to know that Satires sure have the top secret weapons, so, deaf people wouldn’t understand. Perhaps….they are feeble. That’s why Tayler is one of ’em. 😉

    So, we ain’t that dumb.

    Go NAD! 😉

    LOL.

  125. Paotie Says:

    Yup!

    Well .. we are all human. We all make mistakes, and goodness knows I’ve made my share.

    I had a great time with lots of people while my blog was on DR. Sure cracks me up whenever I remember the, “Oops! I did it again!” thingie with Brian at McConnell’s.

    And of course the day you set your pan on fire. Silly!

    🙂

  126. Karen Mayes Says:

    LOL

    😉

  127. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    I know. Somebody went the extra mile and blogged the medical term for “gonad” and made a whole, freakin’ article about it, and accused me of calling NAD some sort of “gonadic” entity.

    That wasn’t my intention at all. I just thought it would be hilarious to see people yelling, “GO NAD! GO NAD!” in a very public place.

    Still makes me chuckle at that thought.

  128. Karen Mayes Says:

    Oh yes, I do recall it… that’s FUNNY.

  129. Paotie Says:

    After I published that article, I left a comment at NAD’s web site that said:

    “GO NAD! GO NAD!”

    But, evidently, it was deleted. Geesh.

  130. White Ghost Says:

    Oh Yes! I do remember very well.

    Remember Miss Toothless? We all miss her. 😉

    Oh Boy, Mike McConnell love to be the Devil’s advocate so that he enjoys to see v/bloggers and commenters getting mad for nothing! LOL.

    That’s funny.

  131. White Ghost Says:

    Really? They deleted yours? Sheez! I’m sure they are biased!

  132. Karen Mayes Says:

    Nah, WG… NAD was in the Freudian mode when they deleted Paotie’s comment 😉

  133. Paotie Says:

    Hey! The original backtrack of my article is still at NAD’s old site.

    COOL!

    http://blogs.nad.org/president/?p=14 (comment #93)

  134. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    “Remember, I once posted a picture on my blog and was immediately notified by DeafRead Editors that I had violated some Guideline involving risque pictures, and yet, about the same timeframe, there was a vlog/blog that appeared on the Main page of DR with the actual picture of an adult film starring a deaf woman.

    I was in violation of Guidelines while the other blogger was not. Why?”

    Exactly. I remember that incident when you were blogging on DR. Why was it that a (D)eaf blogger could put in his blog a Deaf porn vid, but you, a (d)eaf blogger, could not place a pic of a hottie in your blog. The arbitrariness with which Tayler applied the rules to some, but not to others created the environment that Tayler now finds himself in.

    When he banned a popular CI blogger for “commercialism” which was vaguely applied to her case but not to Joey Baer’s blog which touted Sprint services, this blogger started an aggregator of her own and pulled a lot of the CI crowd in DR with her. When he said no to a new rule called “audism” suggested by some ASL Deaf v/bloggers, well, karma revisited to bite him in the butt again.

    Putting aside whatever Ridor did to incur the wrath of Zeus, Ridor has claimed that he was given no notice whatsoever before he was banned. Tayler said he had warned Ridor several times before the ban. At least with you, Zeus condescended to give you notice that you violated what was a rule for you but not for the other blogger.

  135. White Ghost Says:

    That’s what I thought, Karen. Too much pride. *Rolls eye*

    I’d pissed if NAD passed the motion, “deafhood” in the bylaws! Luckily, they didn’t.

    I’d call NAD feebies *if* they passed the motion.

  136. Karen Mayes Says:

    WG, I thought NAD voted on Deafhood for something? Like requiring that the board officers took Deafhood workshop? Am I wrong?

  137. White Ghost Says:

    Karen,

    I recalled that they attempted to convince the boards, staffs and representatives to require to take the deafhood workshop in the bylaws something like that. I think Gamas knows more than I do. I am not sure if it’s real but I do recall that the motion for the deafhood workshop didn’t pass. Just failed.

  138. Karen Mayes Says:

    I just searched for “deafhood” in NAD’s website and could not find it, so I guess NAD quickly wiped its hands off of it when they revamped its website.

    Okay, I am signing off… it has been good being with ya folks. It has been a while.

    🙂

  139. Ann_C Says:

    Hmmm, ya sure about that, WG? Thot the proposal for Deafhood training seminars for NAD staff passed at NAD’s Conference last year. Somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

    Loved the Jesus Hates Deaf article, Paotie. Just roared my head off at that ‘un.

    Wish your green couch was back here.

  140. White Ghost Says:

    I think I’m pleading guilty for not using the green couch right here, not over there. 😛 LOL

    Gamas knows more than I do. I hope she remembers this. I do recall that they didn’t pass.

    Karen digged the NAD’s and guess they wiped it out. Oh well.

  141. gamas Says:

    I am pretty sure it wasn’t passed. It was in one of the motions and made the top ten issues, but was not passed…. I’m searching, to make sure….

  142. gamas Says:

    Didn’t take too long~

    Here are the resolutions passed at the 2008 NAD Convention:

    https://people.creighton.edu/~tri88836/NeADLink/C2008RESOLUTIONS.pdf

  143. White Ghost Says:

    Hey Gamas,

    I do recall that the motion on Deafhood workshop by the CAD and Ralph Singleton.

    Thanks!

  144. Ann_C Says:

    I checked it out. The Deafhood training proposal was combined with another proposal regarding a feasibility study to preserve American Deaf History and ASL into an amendment for consideration by the Steering Committee. The committee didn’t approve of the amendment because the two motions had different goals. You’re right, WG.

  145. White Ghost Says:

    Guys, Guys, Guys,

    You gotta love Barry Sewell’s vlog, “Deafness For Dummies”

    http://www.deafvideo.tv/60323

    Ann_C, I apologize that his vlog does not have the subtitles. Interestingly, his 4 generations did not sign language and 3 generations are now in ASL.

    Based on the genetics mostly.

  146. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    I thought his vlog was pretty good. Made good points. His family has 7 generations of deaf people; 4 did not sign and 3 are ASL. He also make the point that his family tree contains references to his ancestors as being “deaf and dumb,” and he is not ashamed of it.

    Nice vlog. Deafness runs in my family and skipped generations. And Helen Keller is in my family tree, too.

    🙂

  147. White Ghost Says:

    I’m the second generations that runs the deafness, too. Suspiciously, the third.

    My hearing girls and nephews’s future children will be the 3rd/4th in 50-50. Throw a dice.

    It’s nice to know that Helen Keller is in your family tree! She’s my idol and role model.

    It’s good that Barry derailed Aidan Mack’s vlog, “Audism: Barry Sewell and deafness” Her vlog is pretty tasteless. She rants everybody all the time.

    Thanks for sharing, Paotie.

  148. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    I just reread my “Jesus Hates Deaf People” article.

    Weird for me to read that again. Glad you liked it. I could probably do a different version of that and maybe one day, I’ll do it the way I really wanted to back then.

    Thanks for the compliment and enjoying my articles.

  149. Paotie Says:

    White Ghost ..

    Cool beans.

    AIdan is in over her head – she tries too hard too much.

  150. the one and only ridor Says:

    Ann_C, you asked, “How about Tayler booting off Ridor and Tayler is called an audist by a group of ASL Deaf vloggers, for another example?”

    No, the issue about audism has nothing to do with my case. It is about other things that kept on piling up from day one that prompted the scores of deaf vloggers to decry. Why audism? Because several vloggers has been so intent on making vlogs attacking deafhood, audism, gay people, deaf-centered folks from day one. They had nothing better than to make a vlog just to attack each other, I reckon.

    As for me …

    I was booted last November, 2008. That is nearly a year ago. About a couple of months BEFORE the R-List was created. And when I was booted, I was never given a warning. In fact, Tayler used the Cyberbulling Pact as a defense which was lame and in fact, fine with me.

    When I was booted, I was at work and someone emailed me to tell me that my user name disappeared on DVTV. I did not check DVTV for about 5 or 6 hours. When I got home, I checked it — it was true so I emailed Tayler. No response in the first hour. I fired another email. No response for a couple of hours. I fired another one. He finally responded with one line indicating that I’m booted permanently.

    Just one line. That’s it.

    My efforts to communicate with him failed mainly because he does not reciprocate. That’s when I realized that Paotie, McConnell and others were correct about Tayler. They said that they tried to communicate with Tayler to clarify the guidelines et al. Only he does not reciprocate.

    From that point, I moved on to other things. You know, there are forums, message boards, aggregators that would inform you that your entries, websites and/or comments be removed, censored or banned. That is professional thing to do, right? I never got a formal email from Tayler notifying me that I was banned from DVTV. Never did.

    Only Tayler told the viewers/readers that he did. I’d love to let you access my gmail and search all correspondences that I have with Tayler. You’ll find that he only responded with one line.

    I think, over the time, more and more vloggers/bloggers are starting to notice the pattern of Tayler’s antics. He always claim that he communicated with me, you, dog, alien, glacier, penguin and panda bears. But nearly all of us said Tayler did not and yet, Tayler claimed he did communicate.

    Not only that, Tayler made a claim on one of his recent vlogs that I harassed him on daily basis. I got fed up and decided to take a screenshot of my gmail’s SENT folder to show how often did I email Tayler? It proved once and for all that Tayler was lying to others. I emailed him only on September 9 and before that, July 14. That’s it.

    But that does not matter as of now. It is pointless but the bottom line is that DR/DVTV had a lot of potential but thanks to Tayler’s inconsistencies with guidelines and lack of communication that ultimately drove many bloggers and vloggers away from DR/DVTV.

    Yes, some vloggers/bloggers walked out of DVTV/DR mainly because of audism. But there are some vloggers/bloggers who simply stopped supporting DVTV/DR mainly because they saw the abuses that Tayler and the human editors has done to others …

    You know the saying: Truer words were never spoken.

    R-

  151. Ann_C Says:

    Barry’s vlog is interesting, out of seven generations, four didn’t know ASL.

    Me, I came from a hearing family with no history of early deafness. My deafness is due to rubella. My mom wears hearing aids due to age-related deafness, just like her dad. Had to holler at her for seven years before she finally got the aids. You would think…*roll of eyes*

  152. the one and only ridor Says:

    Paotie: I’d be cautious to fall for Barry’s comments. I have many friends in Idaho, Nevada, California, Arizona and North Carolina — they said that Barry is famous for exaggerating.

    I came from 6th generation of Deaf families but I rarely talk about it. Very *rare* because to me, it is not important. But it is to Barry. Barry always go around and claim that he’s 7th … quite often.

    It is my personal belief that people who frequently talked about it often is lying about certain things.

    As for Aidan-WG, sorry — I rather to go with Aidan Mack over yours anyday, anytime and anywhere. Why? Because I don’t trust you, WG.

    R-

  153. Paotie Says:

    That was mainly why I rejected the DeafRead Award nominations for my blog. Ain’t no need to be part of something that wasn’t real.

    After I declined the nominations, someone emailed me and asked why Tayler was so quick to accept my declining of the nomination for the awards and didn’t bother to try and talk to me about it. I don’t remember what I said. I just remember feeling the whole thing was unfair to all the bloggers and vloggers who were denied a spot in the nominations because the Editors decided they were entitled to have the chance win their own awards.

    I mean, the Editors’ articles almost ALWAYS went through Main, and few had their articles moved around, either from Main to Extra, or sat in Extra after receiving lots of votes, or outright ignored. It was unfair to a lot of people who had their articles stuck in Extra because an Editor or two decided that a b/vlogger’s article/posting wasn’t good enough to be in Main, for whatever reason(s).

    Yah. Tayler had a good thing going but let his ego get in the way.

    Tayler’s loss.

  154. Paotie Says:

    Ridor ..

    Point well-taken about Barry. That is all I have to say about that.

    😉

  155. White Ghost Says:

    Ridor,

    Come on, Ridor. You signed the cyberbullying pact at Deafhope. Deafhope has a huge heart for the domestic violence victims. You have no heart for their sufferings. You even stabbed many people’s name and name and name. You like to hurt many people’s feelings. I am starting to get bored with you. Especially, you hurted Deafhope’s dream about the cyberbullying pact.

    When Deafhope proposed to have anyone to sign the petition against the cyberbullying. Tayler signed the deafhope’s petition. He did the right thing to ban you from DR/DVTV. Tayler is right about you. You have always named Tayler all the time. Nothing changed. I do not care if I agree with Tayler’s about the double standards at DR/DVTV or not.

    You said that you don’t trust me. So be it.

  156. the one and only ridor Says:

    Paotie, you said it all. It is amazing that we could agree on something!

    About the DeafRead Awards … It was I who first created the Deaf Blog Awards back in 2005 (http://www.2005deafblogawards.blogspot.com) The main reason why I created it in 2005 was in response to a hearing-run blog awards which I made a suggestion to create a category for deaf individuals. The response to my suggestion was horrible. They mocked at the idea incessantly to a point where I realized that Deaf bloggers/vloggers would not be welcomed in that environment. So off I go in creating a new one. Why did I do that? It is all about bragging and some recognition for each other, really. No big deal.

    Then the next year around, DeafRead pops on. I turned the Deaf Blog Awards to DeafRead under good faith that they’d be open to all deaf bloggers/vloggers. Big mistake on my part.

    I was in Salt Lake City working for Deaflympics Media Team when I was notified that I won the 2006 Best Deaf Blog Award which was announced in Washington, DC. I was told that I should expect a certificate of some sorts. Nice, right? Except that I never got it. I vividly recall that Tayler emailed that I should expect it. Good thing I did not really care much about it at that time (still do not care).

    Don’t get me started on Main/Extra thing on DR. IMO, it killed DR!

    As for Barry thing, I forgot to mention that I find it odd that people would go around and claim that they’re 7th, 11th or 13th generation … I don’t do that to anyone else in particular. I always downplay each time when someone asked me about it. There is something about people who go around talking about their generations that made me raise a red flag. I guess it is only me.

    Off to make a vlog … !

    R-

  157. the one and only ridor Says:

    WG: I was at DeafHope. You were not. Tayler was not there. Tayler signed via the internet. At DeafHope event, we all discussed about the cyberbulling, cyberharassment and cyberstalking. I signed it because I experienced such incidents like that. I got threats frequently. But I do not go around to make threats on your life.

    Yes, I exposed people by identifying their names … mainly because these information can be found on the internet (Read: Public records!). I exposed Dr. Larry Fleischer. I exposed Matthew Moore. I exposed Dr. Jane Norman. I exposed Dr. Jane K. Fernandes. So far, they did not sue me. Know why? Because I do a lot of research before I talk about it.

    It does not matter if anyone’s feelings were hurt or so. If they got their feelings hurt, they still *have* no right to retaliate by calling my workplace, calling my siblings for my social security number (it happened several times!), calling my parents, emailing my relatives about where I live and all that. Now, WG, that is cyberbulling.

    That’s a major difference, White Ghost.

    ARe you aware that the local police department visited my house last May 26, 2009 and June 14, 2009 around 2 AM in the morning? They said that they received anonymous call from Tucson, Arizona saying that I was manufacturing meth and possessed illegal guns. Now, that is cyberbulling and cyberharassment.

    What I signed the Cyberbulling Pact which Julie Rems-Smario and I agreed that “insults” and “bad words” is not even remotely included in the pact.

    Again, you were not there at DeafHope. I was. So for once and for all, STFU.

    R-

  158. White Ghost Says:

    Alright, Ridor.

    At first, I was impressed that you showed up at Deafhope’s. Why did you show up at Deafhope’s? Deafhope invited you to be the host something like that. It was a huge honor for you to go Deafhope’s. It means a lot to the Domestic Violence victims. I was not there but I do feel a pain for the domestic violence victims.

    You tried to expose many good people like Karen Mayes, Brian Mayes, Southside, Deafwhuuut, Harleygirl, and many more in the DVTV. You already made them getting very upset. You don’t care about them at all, even, you disagree with them. You enjoy to see them getting hurt.

    You hurt Deafhope’s dream about the cyberbullying pact.

    I am very sad for Deafhope’s and the Domestic Violence victims.

  159. the one and only ridor Says:

    WG: Don’t bother to change the story. Why did I show up at DeafHope? Because I was invited. Because Julie got to know me very well via VP calls and emails. She witnessed the vicious comments that I shared with her which I received via emails. She felt that my experiences would contribute tremendously.

    Please do *not* spin. These people that you called “good” was not certainly good in my opinion. They frequently fabricated and spinned the information from day one. I reserve the right to expose them. It has nothing to do whether if I “enjoy” nor “care” about their feelings.

    The truth is that I simply exposed. And I do not put my feelings much farther than that. I only wish you could do the same. Too bad you do not. You allow this to be personal.

    Today, Julie and I remain to have a great relationship which I treasure very much. Why do YOU think Julie and I continue to keep in touch? THINK HARD.

    R-

  160. White Ghost Says:

    Whatever, have Julie read this as you wish. That’s fine.

    Do what you really want: WIN. Is it really selfish of you to win EVERYTHING? Is it what you really, really, really want?

    What about the compassion? None.

    I am giving you one: win.

    Good Night.

  161. White Ghost Says:

    I am referring this comment at 4:07 AM to Ridor.

  162. Ann_C Says:

    Folks,

    I’ve had a really long day and with triple digit temp’s here, I’ve yet to cool off. Hope you will too, otherwise I’ll have to put the blog into moderation.
    Thanks to all of you for an interesting dialogue these last few days. I’ve enjoyed your company. 🙂

  163. the one and only ridor Says:

    Triple digits temp? Here in Richmond, Virginia — it is 67f. 🙂

  164. Karen Mayes Says:

    Good AM,

    I REALLY had no idea why Ridor went after me until a few friends emailed to me, alerting about it. He claims to have evidences, etc. All I did was to speak from my heart and I guess he did not like it *shrug* Hence a degree of obsession on me and a few others. I guess his feathers were “ruffled” and decided to interpret my messages all over DVTV and DR differently *shrug* That is what I was talking about choosing to choose to fall victim to manipulation of information or to choose to take it with a grain of salt… either way. We have a choice.

    Anyway, I have yet to view the DVTV’s vlogs… all I can say is that EVERYONE is entitled to his/her opinion, just as much as you and me, and IT’S OKAY to agree and to disagree. I guess there are some people who feel comfortable in going after other people they don’t agree with or feel threatened and it’s not my thing…

    Anyway, Ann_C, your blog is good… I never really understood Tayler’s management of DR and DVTV, how they are run, etc. I just show up and leave my opinions online, nothing more ;o)

    Have a wonderful day! I have been sneezing a lot lately, thanks to the increasing pollens which usually come with spring and fall… I LOVE the scent of the fall, though!

  165. White Ghost Says:

    Thanks, Ann_C. I appreciate it. Hugs.

    Anyway, Funny, you, Paotie, JPR, and Karen M. were discussing about the deaf history in this blog until Barry brought up the latest vlog, “Deafness For Dummies.”

    I’ve thought about Barry and his 7th generations. 4 generations did not sign and the last 3 generations did sign. The first 4 generations did not have the communication systems before and during the 1851. Imagine that there were no deaf schools in the midwest area during the 19th century. The last three generations did sign when there were more deaf schools around the states. Amazing.

    That’s pretty extraordinary.

    I love the fall season and I cannot wait to wear sweaters, Karen M. 🙂

  166. Paotie Says:

    Ann ..

    Triple digits sounds NICE! Snowed here last week and this past weekend was in the mid-50’s. S’posed to be in the 60’s today but that won’t happen until late this afternoon, so until then, it is a bit nippy.

    Anyway .. just wanted to thank you for the opportunity to post lots of comments here at your blog. I appreciate it.

    And to everyone who commented here – ya’ll take care. This is my good-bye to the deaf blogosphere because I want to write/blog about other things in life, society, politics, economics, religion and whatever else I feel like writing about. I wish ya’ll the best of luck, whether you believe in audism/Deafhood, or do not believe in audism/Deafhood.

    🙂

    Paotie

  167. Karen Mayes Says:

    Hey, you too take care, Paotie.

    Hugs,
    Karen

  168. White Ghost Says:

    Paotie……

    Pleeze take me to your blog outside. I love the art/creativity of your satires. 😦

    Thank you for giving me so many good laughs. Keep on truckin’.

    Bummer……

    T’care…..

  169. Karen Mayes Says:

    Hey, Paotie… you will continue using your pseudo-blogger’s name “Paotie”? Will you keep your Green Couch blog?

  170. Paotie Says:

    Karen and White Ghost ..

    Yup. Paotie is mine and mine alone.

    It is analoguous to Matt Hamill going to the UFC. The blogging world is a much, much, much bigger place than the deaf blogosphere, and that is why I am moving on.

    And yes, I am keeping my Green Couch – ya’ll are always welcome to lurk/comment there. But, in terms of the deaf blogosphere, I feel I have done enough and there ain’t no need for me to stick around anymore.

    My decision is about challenging myself in terms of competing against the (hearing) blogging world. I think I am a decent writer and I think I owe it to myself to try and see how well I do against other hearing bloggers.

    “I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.” – Robert Frost

  171. Karen Mayes Says:

    Ahhh… the famous verse, “the less traveled road…”… or following one’s drumbeat.

    I believe you are MORE than a decent writer ;o) My father who has a degree in English literature from Colgate U. and my brother in law who’s the chair of Clayton High School’s English dept, as well as being a published (NOT very well-known though) poet (John Ryan) told me that they were blown away by your writing a few years ago.

    Thanks. 🙂

  172. White Ghost Says:

    Whew..

    I agree with Karen M. I know Robert Frost and he’s poet.

    Remember what you said…..”I’m 4’2″ and there’s more to love!”

    I have to admit that I’m sure glad to know that your decent writing is a w-a-a-a-y better than mine.

    I’ll be there when the green couch is outside. 😉

  173. Ann_C Says:

    Paotie,

    As I’ve said before, I’ll be in line to get your autograph when you publish your Great American Novel, er, Satire.

    Yes, the blogging world is much bigger than the deaf blogosphere. More like swimming with the sharks, it’ll hone your writing skills in order to survive.

    The Green Couch will always be there to kick back with us.

    I’d swap for your weather, love the cool fall.

  174. Paotie Says:

    Hi Guys ..

    Thanks for the support and compliments. Yes, my Green Couch will always be there for ya’ll to kick back.

    I think I have the best readers at my blog – thanks to you guys, among lots of others.

    🙂

  175. Dianrez Says:

    “Dianrez claims that CI companies manipulate ASL deaf people because they offer medical liabilities release forms in English, which means that she believes ASL deaf people are purposefully misguided and manipulated by CI companies due to their lack of English skills.”

    Paotie, please give the reference to that statement you attributed to me.

  176. Paotie Says:

    Dianrez ..

    Show me evidence that the popular CI blogger that was banned from DeafRead due to “commerical purposes” first. YOU have said she was “dropped” due to “commercial interests.”

    So .. a little exchange, eh? You gimme the evidence and I’ll give you mine.

    🙂

    Paotie

  177. Paotie Says:

    Dianrez ..

    One more thing: repeating what Tayler has claimed in terms of his banning of the popular CI blogger is insufficient: YOU said it – YOU prove it.

    🙂

    Paotie

  178. Dianrez Says:

    All right, Paotie, since you are leaving the deaf blogosphere, this won’t be continued. Just allow me to say that I did not say what you just attributed to me. There also have been previous attributions you made to me that I never said. That’s for the record.

  179. Paotie Says:

    Dianrez ..

    I can easily attribute the statements to you.

    And I was looking forward to you presenting the evidence regarding the popular CI blogger, but I’ll give you a pass this last time since I am leaving the deaf blogosphere.

    That’s for the record, too.

    🙂

    Paotie

  180. Joseph Pietro Riolo Says:

    Paotie,

    Please be easy on Dianrez.

    The burden is on you to provide the source of the quotation. Human memory is not infallible. I tried googling on several key words and could not find a comment or blog entry that contains the quotation. But, it does not mean that it does not exist (absence of evidence is not necessarily the evidence of absence).

    After many moons observing Dianrez’s blog and comments, I don’t think that the quotation that you claimed to come from her fits her thinking. I have very high confidence that it definitely does not come from her.

    The quotation sounds so familiar to me but I could not pinpoint the source. It could come from one of these who consistently show arrogant attitude toward cochlear implant and/or who harbor conspiracy theories about cochlear implant.

    Joseph Pietro Riolo
    josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

    Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.

  181. Paotie Says:

    Joseph ..

    Actually, you are correct. The burden of proof falls upon the person who makes the claim.

    I admit Dianrez did not SPECIFICALLY make such a statement, but that does not mean I cannot attribute a number of comments she may have made to reflect her views regarding CI companies and ASL deaf people.

    Likewise, the same applies to her comments regarding the popular CI blogger who was banned. She offers no proof and yet repeatedly makes the same claim consistently.

    Yes. And I suggest you tell Dianrez to insert the word, “allegedly” the next time she mentions the popular CI blogger who was banned. As in, “A popular CI blogger was banned for allegedly not disclosing commercial purposes.”

    Finally, you said: “It could come from one of these who consistently show arrogant attitude toward cochlear implant and/or who harbor conspiracy theories about cochlear implant.”

    Oddly enough, that is how I view Dianrez.

    Get my point?

  182. Ann_C Says:

    Joseph,

    Thanks for reminding us all of something. Honesty is the best policy.

    When someone makes a claim that “someone said or did something”, one should provide the evidence of such claim. Meaning if you claim someone said or did something and there is online evidence of this action, you should provide a link or a screenshot directly to the source in your claim.

    Hearsay or opinion is not enough. People are going to take hearsay or opinion claims with a grain of salt– there may be truth or there may not. But when a claim is backed up with a link or screenshot, well, that link is out there in cyberspace and it can’t be fudged or budged.

    So, next time somebody makes a claim, I’m gonna be asking “Provide a link.”

    You’re on the record, Dianrez.

  183. Dianrez Says:

    Joseph, thanks for setting the record straight.

    Paotie, how I view you is within the frame of having been called “stupid” “ignorant” and other choice imprecations by you in the blogsphere.

    Also, I deliberately chose the word “dropped” instead of “banned” in my intention to use more neutral words referring to the blogger that was banned from DeafRead for “allegedly” (thanks!) not disclosing her connection with the CI industry. Sorry you made an issue of my wording. I also could take issue with your wording and correct “popular” to be more accurately “controversial”, but won’t.

    In the future, I will challenge statements or sentiments that are wrongly attributed to me.

  184. Paotie Says:

    Dianrez ..

    Okay. This is the last of our exchange and we will just agree to ignore each other in the future.

    You said: “I deliberately chose the word “dropped” instead of “banned” in my intention to use more neutral words referring to the blogger that was banned from DeafRead”

    I want you to carefully look at two different examples, one from Ann’s and one from your blog:

    Ann’s: Tayler cited “commercialism” .. .. when he booted a popular C.I. blog from DR

    Dianrez’s: “One early CI blog was booted off due to an undisclosed commercial connection to the industry.”

    You both blogged about DeafRead. You both mentioned Tayler in your posts.

    Ann’s version used a form of “allegedly”, i.e. “neutrality.” Yours did not.

    What did you say about “neutral?”

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are smart enough to know the difference between the two statements and how your statement was NOT neutral.

    And by the way, I didn’t try to change your mind regarding the CI blogger – I accept that your view is yours, and instead, offered a suggestion to give you a more “neutral” context, which you happily thanked me for.

    Good job. You learn well, grasshopper.

    Buh-Bye!

    🙂

    Paotie

  185. White Ghost Says:

    May I step in Dianrez and Paotie if you guys don’t mind.

    Dianrez, I do not care if Paotie calls you stupid or else.

    The CI Blogger has her own aggregrator, Deaf Village right after she got banned from Deafread.

    Deaf Village has been thriving nowadays. It’s very professional and has very wealth information. Professionals, Doctors, researchers, audiologists and others will *SAY* to the parents of deaf child/children to go to Deaf Village, *NOT* to go to Deafread or Dr. Don G’s new aggregrator.

    Now, this “banned” (from DR) CI blogger is now very happy to have her own aggregator, Deaf Village. She does not need to go to Deafread, anyway.

    So, Deafread and Dr. Don G’s new aggregator need to do homework.

    “dropped” does not work that way, anyway.

    So, get it, Dianrez.

  186. mcconnell Says:

    Interesting…albeit…a long read.

    I do playthe devil’s advocate roll at times, mostly I don’t. Or is that the other way around?? It’s up ya’ll to figure that one out. Heh heh….”My plan continues to work flawlessly!”
    http://kokonutpundits.blogspot.com/2009/08/my-plan-continues-to-work-flawlessly.html

    You should see AD’s reaction about the question I posed: “Do you cherish your hearing?” question. Never saw so many lectures. And now, I have a shadow who follows my every post on AD.

    My captioned voice vlog was a genuine effort. I prefer to use my voice and I make sure it gets captioned. Just because I know ASL why should I sign when my voice with captioning does the job? Yes, it was picked up in DR. And, yes, I realized I stumbled onto something big called “hypocrisy” when many Deaf vloggers refused to provide captions or transcripts to their own vlog (yet demand that I do mine?). And the biggest nonsense excuse for not adding caption to an ASL vlog? It must be done for “purity sake” (add 1000 eyerolls here).

    My leaving DR was done soley because Tayler was talking through his hole about the whole CI blogger thing by claiming “commerical interest” as a reason when it was all BS since it wasn’t clarified enough in DR’s rules, there were no due process involved, and certainly no follow-up in contacting the blogger to ask her for clarification. In short, it was all done in haste and with a knee jerk mentality.

    I noticed ya’ll talked about “Deafhood.” That’s something I do not need to subscribe to, personally so. There are so much political correctness going on within the Deaf community that it’s just astounding to see it happen. All one has to do is see the DR, DVTV debacles though I don’t even go on DVTV or know exactly what’s going on but enough so through osmosis.

    And there’s enough double talk whenever the Deaf community says they would welcome me with “open arms” anytime if I decide to “join” or “change my mind.” But, hey, I first have to be “positive” about their culture. What?? I got news for ya’ll. I am a part of the Deaf community though I do choose who I go with and what I do with my time with them, and frankly, the Deaf community is stuck with me. No need for an “open arms” feel good byline just so they feel good saying about (but at the same time call me an audist). I prefer the wider community known as the deaf and hard of hearing community, which does include Deaf people as well since no demands are required to be with them. And, of course, no fear of being called an “audist” at every turn. Though that doesn’t mean I won’t from time to time step into the Deaf community’s territory. And when I do, I know I’ll bound to ruffle a few feathers along the way. Is it me or do they hyperventilate too much?

    As for Paotie, good luck!! Give ’em heck! Why am I being nice here with words? Ah, what the hell. Give ’em hell, Paotie!

  187. The Deafhood Controversy « Gamas Wanderings Says:

    […] this blogger cumulatively covers why things are the way they have been in the deaf blogosphere for as long as […]

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